As for the W4G unit I built, each thread of the wires was pretty thick already and after twisting several wires together the resistance of the wire is even smaller. Also, I used relatively high concentration of KOH (potassium hydroxide) which means the resistance of the electrolyte is small too. With both of these things combined, it produced quite a lot of oxydrogen when the cell is cold. This means that the wires did not act like water heater – I tested the gas coming out using a BBQ ligher and it indeed gave the cracking sound proving it was not water vapor but H2/O2 gas mixture for sure.

The cell did get very hot due to accumulated heat with time. Also because I did not use the 316L stainless steel wire, it corroded relatively fast.

Like I said I did not use baking soda. Using baking soda as electrolyte will not produce harmful gas like you said – I am chemist and I got a PhD in electrochemistry. If someone says that, challenge him to show the electrochemical and/or chemical reactions. If you heat the baking soda (the real name is sodium bicarbonate NaHCO3), it does produce a gas, CO2, according to the following reaction:

2NaHCO3 => CO2 + H2O + Na2CO3

But CO2 is not harmful. Some will call it green house gas, but it does not harm you in any other sense.

The real reason of not using baking soda for electrolyte is that it makes stainless steel electrode corrode more than NaOH or KOH. Between NaOH and KOH, use KOH because potassium hydroxide is not as caustic as sodium hydroxide.

Don’t get me wrong, I do not think W4G’s electrode design is the best and it is not easy to make either. I was just testing all kinds when I started. We have some better designs now and we are going to test them.

I just checked Wouter’s website and his tubular electrolyzer looking very interesting. However, the 25A cell current seems to be too high. We should optimize the HHO production using as low cell current (e.g. 10A) and cell temperature (e.g. 40 degree celsius) as possible.

it is hard for me to believe that the W4G unit is that much better as it is really a water heater because the Stainless steel has high electrical Resistance there for heating the fluid in the booster and creating steam thereby creating a damp air intake (great if you are in a dry area)

also what is the fluid used in the W4G booster (Baking soda ?) if it is that creates HARM FULL gases when when electrolyzed.

the Wouter cell by Water For All (WFA) have a much better booster then W4G using SS tubes sized to it in to each other drawing about 10A for 1 L/m

Rob

Regarding the “what’s this hose”? question, i’ve posted a full answer (with diagrams and part numbers) to the sprinter-forum thread you started.

Since you’re probably thinking of using it as an alternate feed point for the HHO, be aware that there is a -heater- at the bottom of it, right where it meets the turbo intake.

—
Now, as to the July 19th comment, the FULL text was supposed to be something like “What is going to happen if your dealer sees the photos…”

On my own part, i fully understand what you’re trying to do, and the various test hookups you’re trying.
——————–

In conjunction with researching the “what’s this hose” question, i fell across a full description of how the ECM (engine control module) “thinks”, and it’s quite different than many… the O2 sensor thinking there’s “too much” oxygen does -not- cause additional fuel to be injected. It causes the EGR amount to be increased (adding exhaust gas to the intake volume must, by displacing it, lower the amount of fresh air (i.e. oxygen) that’s swallowed by the engine. Thus Sprinters are somewhat immune to the O2 Sensor issue, as one of the sprinter-forum’s HHO experimenters has seen empirically. If he’s reporting correctly. That same system could also conceivably confuse the ScanGauge. Tank-fills remain the Gold Standard for fuel consumption. The scangauge certainly -helps- see what driving techniques help fuel consumption, but it doesn’t know everthing.

have fun
–dick

Maybe there is a better place to inject HHO than what I use now (the second picture) – where the EGR (exhaust-gas recirculation) hose connects to the air intake hose. But that is not the most urgent thing.

The most urgent this is… something has to be done with oxygen and MAF sensors as my ScanGauge II displays clearly that feeding HHO to the engine did not help with fuel economy, even worse it increased fuel consumptions when a high cell current was used – see these latest test results here.

As for the “water injection” effect, it might be there for the SL50 test as I had not installed the shutoff valve for the HHO injection. But for the test using my home-built device, that shutoff valve was there and I actually closed it when I disconnected the generator for the Red Deer to Edmonton trip. So the test for the home-built one was reflecting the actual “before anything” condition. This also means that the comparison test for SL50 should have shown more saving had I had the shutoff valve installed and closed for the second leg of the test trip. Thank you, Dick, for pointing out this. This sort of solves the mystery why the two test results were so close while SL50 produces more HHO (as a very high current 10A was used) than the home-built device (2A was used).

As for the air pressure in the air induction hose, it is indeed positive when the turbo is on. The air pressure was so high when going uphill or on highway that twice it blew up the hole in the hose where HHO was injected when I tested the commercial SL50 unit – I used an automotive tire repair kit to amend the hole and reinforced the repair using several layers of duct tape. I just did a repair the third time and hope this time it won’t blow up the hole. I might have to purchase a new hose if it happens again

OK, I used some plumbing clamps to reinforce the repair and now work pretty good. Learn from my mistakes – NEVER NEVER drill a hole in the air induction hose after the turbo. Any leak will cause significant lost of engine power. Here is the picture showing I used three hose clamps to reinforce the rubber repair and duct taping:

It appears that it is good to inject HHO after the MAF (mass air flow) sensor but before the turbo. There should be enough vacuum there to suck HHO in rather than it being pushed in. See this picture for the proper way of feeding HHO into Sprinter’s air system:

-3.8hPa is -.055 psi (or, if your “h” really was K, -0.55 psi) which certainly is not -much- vacuum. I -suspect- that the turbo wasn’t really helping (blowing) much at idle (why should it? increasing airflow would only increase fuel burn, which would be a waste if there’s no load demand), hence you were seeing the system almost perfectly balanced.

As you note in your FAQ, the “water injection” effect of the bubbler in even the “off” state may skew your results compared to the “before anything” condition.
–dick

This way you’ll hopefully balance out any effects of differing terrain/highway/etc. on the two legs.

By having the cell ON on the first leg in both tests you’ve compared the commercial to home-made cell, but by not running the C->RD leg with it -off-, you haven’t really compared either with “no HHO” over the same course.

======
On the “cells in series” question: yes, that will be more efficient overall. It takes less than 2 volts to split water, so you could run up to 6 cells in series without exceeding the nominal 12v available. It won’t even take more energy, if you control it to limit the current to the same current you have now in your single cell, but you may have to increase the amount of KOH to keep the current up at the lower per-cell voltage.

have fun
-dick