Beside purchasing and testing the commercial oxy hydrogen generator, we also searched for a home-made DIY (do it yourself) device that is easy to replicate with a low cost. What we found was Ozzie Freeman’s ebook teaching how to assemble and install a home-made oxy hydrogen generator – he calls it water electrolyzer. Here is a picture of the finished pack for his system:
We have almost finished assembled one of this home-made device with the help of Jack Yan. We say “almost finished” because we have trouble finding these two parts in Alberta, Canada:
- Barb elbow – it looks like this
- Adjustable dripper – can be ordered here according to Ozzie’s ebook
- Grade 316L stainless steel wire
If you happen to know where to get these items in Calgary or any other places in Canada, please let us know. Thanks!
Note 1: This is an update entered on September 11, 2008. We found a swivel elbow made of plated brass that works better than any plastic barb elbows out there. Stainless steel swivel elbows are better but more expensive than brass ones. The threaded end can screw tightly on the fruit jar’s plastic cap by drilling a hole slightly smaller than the male end of the elbow. As for the adjustable dripper we purchased it online. We also found a local store that sells 316L stainless steel wires, sheets, pipes, etc. Thank all those who help us locate these items!
Note 2: after finding out the non-316L stainless steel wire corroded fast, I have purchased some other DIY plans to see what else we can use as electrodes. Click here to check these DIY plans for building oxy hydrogen generators we have bought and now recommend. One is easier than Ozzie’s version to build. Another one is more sophisticated and much harder to replicate. Beside fruit jars, I have seen people use water filter container to build the cell.
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I found my barbs at an auto parts store in calgary. I’m sure you can find them anywhere at an auto parts place. Also the wire can be found at a UFA or similar store. The dripper I still have no luck with.
I hope that helps!
Kenley, I have got a few myself but I guess the swivel elbow like this one is the best.
So the UFA store has the 316L stainless steel wire? I will check it out. Thank you!
The adjustable bubbler? I purchased some from here: http://www.dripworksusa.com/store/adjsprink.php
The 316l stainless I got from My local welding shop. They have either 316l stainless rod or wire. I chose the rod. The Dripper I found at home depot in the underground sprinkler section. As for the barbed elbow, I used a 90 degree compression elbow from the plumbing section, simular to the one in fuelsaving’s picture. It worked well because the nut holds it to the lid quite well. Good luck guys and heep me posted on your results. LAnce
I have a 1998 toyota camry that i installed a 4 cell water4gas wired in a series parallel connection with a pcv enhancer,map sensor and bypassed the o2 sensors so far no difference in mileage any one else have results or suggestions maybe reprogramming the computer parameters?
Dominick, can you post some pictures of your installation? Click http://autofuelsaving.com/info/contact/ to send email to me so that I can reply to you and then you send the pictures by replying to my email.
Do you feed HHO through the air intake hose or fuel line? I would like to get it work with my Toyota Sienna so any tips and hints are appreciated.
hi im agila from philippines,,, how much the heat required maximum of jar electrolizer if only single jar?thank you
Hi Agila, I do not quite understand your question. Why did you ask about the heat required? Required to do what?
Did you mean this – since the current passing through the electrolizer generates heat, it heats up the water and we should control the current so that the heat does not reach its maximum to boil the water?
In a most recent experiment with SL50 on highway between Calgary and Edmonton, we sort of boiled the water as we saw milky water coming from the cell and entering the bubbler. The current we used was 9.7A – we should reduce this current so that water boiling does not happen.
Hi I have just completed my Hydrogen Generator but not sure where to put the hoses into the motor also I have two bottles with the electrodes in them what voltage is needed any info will help me on this
Cheers David
David, my reading of the two hoses in the water4gas system is that, depending on your car model and fuel type (gasoline or diesel), one hose should connect to the air intake after the air filter and one to the air intake at the carburetor.
Since you have two cells, it is better to connect them in series so that the voltage across each cell is about 6 volts like this:
12V Positive +(CellA)- wire +(CellB)- Ground
Make sure the solution concentration is roughly the same in each cell so that the 12V can be equally distributed (6V +6V). I would measure the amperage by connecting the battery across each individual cell and adjust the cell solution so that the current flowing is about 10 to 15A. When you connect the two cells in series, the current would drop to 5 to 7.5A as each cell’s voltage drops from 12V to 6V.
If you could get KOH (potassium hydroxide) or NaOH (sodium hydroxide), then it is better than using the baking soda as the latter increases corrosion of the positive wire electrode. I am using KOH as that is what I can get.
Buy the elbows and drippers from the irrigation section in any hardware store. They are components of a drip irrigation system.
If you guys are in the DIY mode like this, you are still in the baby steps. Wire wrap on plexi glass is out of date. Stainless steel plates is the way to go. Easy to find and easy to make. And twice the hho per bottle. A little work and NO plastic melt down. For those of you who knows what that is. And less MUD. As for milage? There is more that is not being talked about. A fuel rectifier. I went from 14.5 mpg to 22.5 mpg. That’s 56%. And I still have yet to hook up the map sensor. Common guys. We need to talk.
Thank you Paul for making this comment. The commercial 50SL (SL for StainLess) cell I am testing is indeed made of high grade of stainless steel (316L). Yes, it has less MUD than the home-built one. The MUD has something to do with the low-grade stainless wire that most people use. When you use the 316L (L for low carbon) then you will have less MUD even if you use the wire-wrap-on-plexi-glass version. Yes, the wire-wrap-on-plexi-glass version is for someone who would like to start without having to spend a few hundred bucks to purchase a commercial one.
Fuel rectifier? Yes, supplemental HHO should be called a fuel rectifier or fuel reformer as it improves fuel burning efficiency rather than adding more power to the engine. If you talk about a different fuel rectifier, please let us know what it is.
56% saving? That is wonderful! I can only achieve a saving of about 30% in a recent test on my 2006 Dodge Sprinter cargo van (medium long wheelbase and high roof)
Could you tell us more about your cell design and setup? Is it gas or diesel engine that you are testing on? Since you have not touched the map sensor, I assume your vehicle is running gasoline. Where do you inject HHO?
I see from your web page that you are a professional electrician – right on. Yes, we would like to hear more!
I used 1 1/2″ s.s. washers on a 1/4″ threaded s.s. seperated by s.s. 1/4″ nuts. I place a plastic bar on the bottom to stablize the rods.(one must be insulated if using the metal lids. On the top, I used a “tee” from the sprinkler section of lowe’s to connect the 4 jars together. I plugs off one side of the “tee” of the first jar. I used a 1/2 hose to stablize the “tee” in the lid. Drippers can also be found in the sprinkler department of lowes. Send for a diagram of any of the above mentioned items.
You guys are all wasting your time and money, it’s all the big scam. I notice one of the responses above, a guy that followed the instructions and built one, no mpg increase at all. I’ve heard of heaps of people who built and fitted, or worse…bought and had fitted……who got nothing…..or worse….mpg decreased. Remember this…….power is not generated from your alternator for free……every amp that comes from alternator comes at a cost…..the load on your generator is increases, so does the amount of petrol required to turn it…..so your using petrol to generate those extra amps to run your hho generator. The extra 10 or 20 amps you your alternator has to put out loads it up and the increased resistence to achieve the same rpm means an extra bit of petrol……in fact….more petrol then what HHO is being generated. Since HHO is more powerful then petrol, and it also has oxygen with it, some gain is still made if everything is set up just right. But the gain is minimal…..5% better off at best….and even that comes at a price…..the load on your alternator, extra heat on your valves etc etc……this has to have some cost as far as wear and tear. Sure your engine will still run cool, the thermastat and fan will jut kick in earlier and more often to keep it down…..but hot spots inside your cylinders are hotter then the rest of the motor and take their toll over time……more heat on the actual moving parts means more wear…..no way around this.
Its no wonder you dont’ gain much if you think about it. Take a 4 liter motor. Say a V8. Thats half a liter per cylinder. Every four strokes of each cylinder draws in half a liter of fuel vapour and air. times 8 cylinders, that 4 liters every four strokes…..1 rpm is two strokes……so your drawing 2 liters of fuel and air for every 1 rpm. Now say your going down the road engine running at say 4000 rpm……that’s 8000 liters of fuel vapour and air…..remember we are talking volume and gas….vapour and air…..not liquid……8000 liters per minute. So how much you gonna gain by adding your 1 or 2 liter per min flow of HHO from your generator. Even if you say but the 2 liter flow of HHO is four times as powerful as 2 liters of petrol vapour and air…..that makes it equal to 8 liters……..even if you say that the HHO with the oxygen also magically doubles this increase, so make it equal to 16 liters of fuel air mixture. All that and you gain if your lucky 1 percent. Do the math….and you will see that you will need very high output HHO generator which will equal very high output from your alternator to run….which will equal burning out an alternator every few weeks…..or months at best…..wiping out your financial gain.
I’m a mechanic…..what would I know
Stu, have you read what I posted here?
http://autofuelsaving.com/info/benefits-of-adding-hydrogen-as-fuel-supplement/
Research shows the adding hydrogen (in our case it is H2/O2 mixture in the right ratio) will allow the engine run on a leaner fuel/air condition. Without adding hydrogen, the stoichiometric ratio of gasoline/air is 1 to 14.7 by mass. With hydrogen added, the engine can run at a gasoline/air ratio of 1 to 20 or more, which is impossible without the adding of hydrogen.
The the adding of HHO (2H2+O2) does not add much more energy as you understand it correctly. However, the presence of hydrogen acts more like a rectifier or reformer – it helps the heavy fuel molecules burn more complete than without HHO.
In other words, generating HHO does not save at all. Like you says, it consumes energy to produce HHO. However, the small amount of HHO in the engine puts the otherwise unburned fuel into use which shifts the conventional fuel/air stoichiometry to a leaner condition.
Let us illustrate with numbers… if it costs 5% more fuel to produce HHO while the presence of HHO reduces fuel consumption by 20%, then we have a net fuel saving of 15%.
I am glad that you are a mechanic, but you need to understand the chemistry of having hydrogen/oxygen in the engine combustion chamber.
The real challenges I see are:
(1) How to optimize the production of HHO without adding too much load to the engine. I just finished building a cell that draws 5A (cold start) to produce HHO without adding any electrolyte (just plain tap water). If we use the fully charged battery voltage 12.6V (is 13.8V when the battery is being charged full), then this HHO cell only uses 63 watts. Does this 63 watts load the engine too much?
(2) How to get into the brain of modern vehicle, the onboard computer, to adjust (decrease) the fuel/air ratio when we inject HHO into the engine so that it can run lean which is impossible without the presence of HHO. Quite a few devices have come up to tackle this challenge.
Here are some ideas to improve oxyhydrogen devices:
1. Graphite is electrically conductive and inert. Coat your electrodes with graphite paint. You can make a cell using PVC pipes, fittings, caps and reducers. Put a smaller pipe into a larger pipe. The pipes must not electrically short each other but they should be as close together as possible. Coat the pipes with graphite paint. The pipes can be dipped into the paint or the larger pipe can be capped first and then filled with paint, like a cup, then pour the paint out. The larger pipe is the container for the electrolyte and also one of the electrodes. The smaller pipe is the other electrode and also channels the gas out of the cell by drilling holes in the pipe at the top of the cell. It also permits adding water to the cell. Using a 1 inch pipe for the container, 4 cells would use less than 5 square inches of space. Electrical connections can be made with graphite glue: http://www.wireglue.us
2. Try a sulfuric acid electrolyte. Sulfuric acid is sold as a drain cleaner at hardware stores. Add the acid to the water. Do not add the water to the acid.
3. Engines get hot! Waste heat can be converted to electricity using thermoelectric modules. These can assist the alternator. Enough of them could possibly replace the need for an alternator which would amount to great savings! This counters the objections of alternator fuel consumption arguments.
4. Solar cells can also be used.
5. Experiment!
Ray, thank you for your wonderful input!
I just ordered 5 cans of Wire Glue from http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com and would like to see how it works by coating my electrodes with it.
Using sulfuric acid as electrolyte? Hmmm… acid is very active in reacting with most metals. How do you handle this?
Converting heat to electricity? This is interesting! Any commercial thermoelectric modules out there in the market? I will do some research on this. Thank you!
Yes, solar cells can be used but they are too expensive for now.
I do have another idea, that is to construct a cell that automatically separates H2 from O2 which power a hydrogen fuel cell to produce electricity. So the unit combines the fuel cell and electrolysis cell into one. This assembly should act as an energy buffer and will replace the lead-acid battery in the car. This is just an idea and a lot of work has to be done to make it an reality.
Anyway, found a good website http://www.hho4free.com which discusses ways to produce a better HHO cell.
Graphite does not react. It’s inert. Do a search for “graphite paint” & “conductive graphite paint”. Graphite paint uses nanoparticles of graphite. For technical information on water hydrolysis go here: http://www.qsinano.com/white_papers/Water%20Electrolysis%20April%2007.pdf
Add a small amount of acid at a time. Around 2% or more. You want the maximum amount of gas and the least amount of heat. You need 2 to 4 volts per cell. 4 cells using 12 volts should work. Larger gas transfer tubes have less resistance, the same goes for wires. You can also try experimenting using alternating current via a variable transformer. Test on small engines, like a lawn mower.
Experiment = trial & error
Indeed graphite is inert. I see what you mean, Ray. You want to coat all the metal parts with graphite paint and then try sulfuric acid as electrolyte. Got ya!
One thing I can see that needs experimenting is the distance between the positive and negative electrodes. That distance should be small – the thickness of nylon tie or spacer. After coating with graphite the surface will be rough (a good thing for H2 and O2 gases to separate from the electrode surface), it would make keeping the distance small harder. Maybe not hard as I guess here. Yes, experimenting is the key.
Actually graphite paint is slippery. It’s used as a lubricant, radio shielding, etc. Build the cell as described. The reducer will hold the smaller pipe firmly in place with sufficient space. Ream the reducer out if needed to let the smaller pipe pass through. Let the larger pipe be the cathode and the smaller pipe the anode. Being circular, pipes give a larger surface electrode area. Plastic pipes, coated with conductive graphite paint, are the easiest, least expensive, most efficient and most space saving cells that a do-it-yourself person can probably make.
Please refer to all my previous posts.
Oxyhydrogen device construction & Testing
1. Construct cells as instructed in previous posts.
2. For a 12 vdc system you need to have 6 cells in series for the same reason that a vehicle battery has 6 cells in series.
3. Test using a small engine (lawn mower) and use a battery charger to power your device.
4. Run your engine out of fuel. Refuel using a measuring cup for a consistent amount of fuel.
5. Time how long it takes to run out of fuel. Record your data. Repeat and record your data at least 3 times. This will be your baseline data.
6. Refuel and also input your oxyhydrogen gas to the air intake.
7. Time how long it takes to run out of fuel. Record your data. Repeat and record your data at least 3 times. This is your device data.
8. If the time is less then your results are worse. If the time is the same your results are even. If the time is more then your results are better.
9. You want better results!
10. Repeat your testing. All good results are repeatable by anyone.
Most objections to oxyhydrogen use in vehicles center around the use of the vehicle’s alternator. Answer: Get rid of the alternator and use a solid state device that uses the waste heat from the engine. This devise is called an thermoelectric module. One side is hot the other side is cold. Direct current electricity is the result. They need to be connected in series and parallel in a correct configuration, in sufficient numbers, to equal an alternators output of around 200 or more amps. The oil pan is probably the easiest place to access to mount the devices. Use cooling fins (heat sinks) on the road side. Use heat conducting grease. Heat raises. Wind chill will help with the cooling. Research thermoelectric modules.
For a base line run your vehicle with the alternator with a measured amount of fuel and time how long it takes to run out at least 3 times and record your data. This is your baseline with the alternator.
Take your belt off the alternator (other parts may still need a belt) and run the tests again. While running the test, use a battery charger on your battery. The vehicle should run longer. This indicates better efficiency without the alternator. Record your data.
If the tests are successful. Build, mount and test your thermoelectric device. Retest.
Share your knowledge!
We MUST make this happen NOW!
Go here for your thermoelectric modules: http://www.bestbyteinc.com/LIQ-TEC-226.html
Thank you for the link, Ray! The thermoelectric modules are very interesting. Just one thing is not sure, why the website says that it needs a power supply to power these modules. I thought it is the other way around: it provides power rather than draws power.
Ray, according to my experience, the hardest part is not electrode construction. I just finished assembling two 11-plate electrodes using stainless steel wall switch plates – I will post a picture pretty soon. Each of these electrode assemblies can produce quite a lot of oxyhydrogen using just plain tap water (in my case it is the wholehouse filtered water). No electrolyte is ever needed.
I see the hardest part is how to make a modern car (made after 1996) to run lean, that is, how to adjust the signals fed into the onboard computer on the vehicle so that the engine can run lean in the presence oxyhydrogen. Since each vehicle is different, more time will be spent on how to optimized the settings. Do you have any experience and thoughts on this part?
Study thermoelectricity. The devices work in two separate modes. If you apply voltage, one side gets hot and the other side gets cold. They are used in heating and cooling units. If you apply heat to one side and cool the other you produce electricity. Refer to thermocouples.
Study and try to understand the concepts in the water hydrolysis paper. Tap water has a few ions. Therefore it is a weak electrolyte. Ions are what makes it conductive. More ions make better electrolytes.
You may not need to do all this stuff. Start over. Change one thing at a time and test, test, test.
Emissions on vehicles are regulated under Federal law. You might not be able to pass the under hood inspection required in many states for smog. You also might be subject to violation citations, fines, and imprisonment.
Caution is advised!
Also, most water softeners use salt, table salt (NaCl), which will provide lots of ions.
Here’s the FTC site:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/autos/aut10.shtm
Thermoelectric module in the heating/cooling to electricity mode demonstration video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dKJsCtAvH4
All this additional info is very helpful, Ray!
Here are some pictures for the oxyhydrogen generator electrode I recently built using 11 pieces of half-cut (at an angle) blank wall switch plates (stainless steel). I use nylon bolts and nuts to hold the plates in place and stainless steel bolts, washers and nuts for electrical connections.
I use no electrolyte whatsoever – just the wholehouse filtered water from the tap. I get very good result with it: 5 amps for cold start and about 10 amps (increased oxyhydrogen production) when the cell gets hot.
Front of the 11-plate electrode assembly
Back of the 11-plate electrode assembly
Side of the 11-plate electrode assembly
Cell before closing the sides
Cell after closing the sides and installing drain valve
I built the electrode and cell based on borrowed ideas from Gas4Free’s DIY plan (I purchased their plan) and Smack’s cell electrode. I am surprised at the amount of oxyhydrogen it produces without using any electrolyte!
It looks great! See a previous post about tap water actually being an electrolyte. Tap water has some ions therefore it’s a weak electrolyte. Distilled water is 100% H20 & nothing else providing the ions that permits current flow.
Just FYI: Using only 1 thermoelectric module recommended should be enough power to run your cell. Use the module as an isolated power supply to power your cell, which will eliminate completely the input from the alternator. It will only use wasted engine heat converted to electricity.
BMW has it NOW!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY0SAzs1LJw
BMW part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85hWBuX_ccI&feature=related
Yes, I’ve seen these videos earlier. Indeed very impressing.
I wonder if there is other places to place the thermoelectric module, say, somewhere near the radiator. My concern is the dust and mud that might cover the area if I mount the module at the bottom of oil pan.
I have seen some other versions that use a fluid, say the radiator coolant, to run through the cold side of the module while the module attaches the heat source. For this version, one might need to use a pump to circulate the fluid – maybe this is not a good option.
Anyway, I am going to order two of the modules and experiment with it – I have two cars that I can use it on.
Use an oxyhydrogen generator powered by a thermoelectric generator and you will truly have “the ultimate driving machine”.
Experiment. This is recent cutting edge stuff. Again, graphite paint is slippery. If the under side of a lawn mower is painted with it, grass clippings won’t clog the mower. A light hosing will probably keep them clean. Another plus using graphite paint is that it is black. Black radiates and absorbs heat very well. The hottest on one side and the coldest on the other side of the modules should work the best.
Keep up your great work!
Here’s another great information site:
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/
Testing & Measuring Emissions:
http://www.epa.gov/nvfel/testing/index.htm
Easy verification of results test:
1. You know your mileage before your unit was installed.
2. You know your mileage after your unit was installed.
3. Remove power from your unit and record your mileage with no gas being produced.
4. Report your results.
New experiment idea:
Extend your exhaust pipe, via a corrugated metal tube, back to your air intake. This would make it a closed system, with no fumes escaping to the atmosphere. This should provide heated water vapor, unburned fuel and other stuff back to the engine. The air filter would need to be changed more often. A larger fresh air intake may be needed to reduce possible engine choking. This is a fresh new idea that may or may not actually work.
Ray, this is called EGR (exhaust-gas recirculation). It is not a completely new idea but it is indeed relatively new and not yet implemented in most vehicles. The idea was not meant for fuel saving but to reduce nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions. Here is a good source for more info about EGR:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation
Here is another one about EGR: http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/nov97/gas.htm
Hybrid Electric/Water Vehicle!
An electric water vehicle hybrid could be built that would not use an internal combustion engine. Using oxyhydrogen, generated via the vehicles batteries and/or capacitors, to burn in a heating device, that powers thermoelectric modules, also called thermoelectric generators (TEG), that charges the electrical storage system. The water exhaust would be captured and put back into the oxyhydrogen device. Linear electrical generator shock absorbers could also add electrical charging capacity. No fossil fuel would be required, only water to convert to oxyhydrogen.
Read this thesis:
http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-11052004-145157/unrestricted/Paz_thesis.pdf
Ray, this is a loop and there is energy loss in the form of heat in the loop. Where does the extra energy coming from that is needed to push the whole system running without dying?
Joe cells or Stanley Meyer’s cells are needed to efficiently produce oxyhydrogen but each version must draw this extra energy needed from somewhere (electromagnetic energy around) in order to keep this loop system running. Much research work needs to be done to fully understand how Joe cells and Stan Meyer’s cells work as both seem to use voltage rather current to produce HHO. However, that whether the electromagnetic vacuum energy is sucked in to aid HHO production needs to be pinned down before further application of this wonderful idea of electric/water hybrid system.
Read the thesis and apply. Also, use photovoltaic cells. Most driving and parking is in the sun. The added electrical charging devices causes it not to be a loop.
Heat is electromagnetic energy.
Tesla’s Dream Fulfilled!
Tesla, the inventor of the world’s electrical power system, had a dream of having unlimited electrical power, worldwide, using antennas. This can be done using resonance, similar to how a crystal radio works. Diodes, capable of rectifying the electromagnet spectrum from the heat range and up, need to be used as bridge rectifiers, to convert heat to direct current electricity. The speed of these diodes need to be in the terahertz range and faster. We have the ability now to make diodes that operate in the terahertz speed range. Antennas can be made using conductive graphite paint. Graphite paint is made using nanoparticles of graphite and is black; black absorbs electromagnetic radiation. Antennas could be insulated black concrete, to store heat energy, coated with graphite paint and placed on the ground or on roofs. The graphite nanoparticles will resonate as nanoantennas. Heat is anything above absolute zero.
All systems should be professionally engineered.
Engineer around objections to make it work!
Example Objection: Oxyhydrogen generators use power from the alternator causing higher fuel consumption.
Example Solution: Dump the alternator. Use TEGs, powered by wasted engine heat, to augment or replace the alternator.
The electric vehicle would probably work better using only the shock absorber electrical generators, photovoltaic generators and future generator developments. Fast charging, using metered grid power during stops, could bring the vehicle up to charge.
Ray, I received two pieces of the thermoelectric module bought from http://www.bestbyteinc.com/LIQ-TEC-226.html and I have tried to use both on the front of radiator (glue between two pieces of aluminum plate and fixed to front of the radiator) and on the catalyst converter of the exhaust pipe. On radiator I could only get about 100 mV (0.1 V) and on the catalyst convertor I got 350 mV (0.35 V). I connect them in parallel to increase the current. So to reach the 2V required to split H2O, I need to connect in series at least 7 piece of this module. I have not measure the amps I can get out of it yet – not much I expect.
I just tied the aluminum plate assembly to the catalyst convertor. If I had used the graphite glue between the assembly and the catalyst converter, I would have gotten more voltage. BTW, I did use the graphite glue to fix the module in between the aluminum plates and used six metal screws to hold them tight. Nylon screws should be better to prevent heat exchange between the aluminum plates. But I kind of doubt all these improvements could boost the voltage to the required level without increasing the numbers of thermoelectric modules.
Anyway, these modules seem to be efficient in converting electricity to heat difference and not that efficient the other way around, otherwise everyone would have used it to replace the car alternator long before.
An electric hybrid vehicle, modified with it’s alternator replaced by an automotive thermoelectric generator (ATEG), to charge the batteries and to power an oxyhydrogen (H2O gas) device, of sufficient volume, to augment the normal fuel, would probably be the most efficient vehicle, using current technology.
It’s extremely important that the heating and cooling of the modules be as perfect as possible. Having metal screws holding your system together will cause a thermal conductive path that will keep the hot and cold sides at nearly the same temperature. You might try to wireglue a module directly to the muffler. The muffler should get quite hot and provide a large surface to mount your modules. Try mounting them on the bottom of the muffler next to the road. For the cold side, you must use a heat sink, wiredglued to the module. Mount the heat sink in line with the air flow. Here’s a heat sink that probably will work with your modules.
http://www.primelec.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/SFV/31734/vpid/4910021/vpcsid/0/rid/124330
Be certain to cover the hot and cold surfaces of the modules completely with the wireglue with no air pockets. Extend the module wire leads using large enough wire, to reduce the voltage drop, to a meter inside the vehicle. Use one heat sink per module. The heat sinks and the hot surface must not touch. You must have a substantial temperature difference between the hot and cold sides of the modules. There are modules made with different materials which may or may not work better. Test using a moving, for air flow cooling over the heat sink, and hot vehicle. Keep experimenting, testing and verifying your results.
I tried using a very sophisticated heat sink (costing almost CAD$30) when I mounted the thermoelectric assembly to the front of the radiator.
I did not use this heat sink when I mounted underneath the catalyst converter (it should be hotter than the muffler) because the heat sink was a bit too thick for undermounting.
I was very careful in assembling this Al/module/Al sandwich like you said above. Not using nylon screws was the only thing that I missed.
Gluewiring the module directly to the catalyst converter? The graphite glue I got may not have the strength to hold it long enough for the test.
The heat sink you recommended is indeed a good candidate for undermounting the assembly to the catalyst converter – I will try to find one in my local computer stores.
Here’s a versatile worm drive clamp:
http://www.breezeclamps.com/makeaclamp.htm
A safer cell can be made by separating the hydrogen and the oxygen gas. This can be easily done by using two clear flexible tubes, about one inch in diameter. Coat the insides of the tubes with graphite paint, the same distance as the depth of your electrolyte. Run 12 gauge insulated wires through the tubes, strip the ends of insulation and graphite glue the stripped wires to the graphite coated inside surface. A properly coated tube should be completely black. Using plastic tape, tape the tubes together at the electrolyte end. The tubes can even be flattened some. Insert the tubes in an electrolyte and apply voltage. The negative tube will be hydrogen and the positive tube will be oxygen. Either both tubes can be combined at the point of use by using a “T” fitting or just the hydrogen tube can be used with the oxygen tube possibly routed to the passenger compartment to augment the air.
Here’s a quote form Wikipedia “When palladium is at room temperature and atmospheric pressure, it can absorb up to 900 times its own volume of hydrogen, which makes palladium an efficient and safe storage medium for hydrogen and hydrogen isotopes.” Experiment using palladium nanopowder.
If you only want to use the hydrogen, only one clear plastic tube is needed. Coat both surfaces, inside and outside, with graphite paint. Graphite glue your negative wire to the inside surface and graphite glue your positive wire to the outside surface. The gas inside the tube will only be hydrogen. To get the largest electrode surface area, wind the tube as a linear coil inside your electrolyte container. The oxygen must then have a way to escape to the air.
Larger electrode surface area will produce more gas. Use woven plastic fabric, coated with graphite, for your electrodes and woven plastic fabric as insulators. The insulating fabric needs to be wider than the electrodes. Wind in a roll and secure using plastic cable ties. Plastic landscape fabric works.
These cells, electrolytic capacitors, ultra capacitors and wet cell batteries are all closely related in design.
Using a braided battery ground cable or the equivalent, connect the cold side of the thermoelectric module to the metal body of the vehicle. This will make the metal body a cold side heat sink. Lighter colors or reflective coatings will make the vehicle body colder.
Here’s an interesting forum site for building a graphite plate generator:
http://forum.beawindhog.com/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?m-1218515372/s-0/
Hydrogen Use In Internal Combustion Engines
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/tech_validation/pdfs/fcm03r0.pdf
9.5) Why are hydrogen-powered cars not available?
The Hindenburg.
The technology to operate IC engines on hydrogen has been investigated in depth since before the turn of the century. One attraction was to use the hydrogen in airships to fuel the engines instead of venting it. Hydrogen has a very high flame speed ( 3.24 – 4.40 m/s ), wide flammability limits ( 4.0 – 75 vol% ), low ignition energy ( 0.017 mJ ), high autoignition temperature ( 520C ), and flame temperature of 2050 C. Hydrogen has a very high specific energy ( 120.0 MJ/kg ), making it very desirable as a transportation fuel. The problem has been to develop a storage system that will pass all safety concerns, and yet still be light enough for automotive use. Although hydrogen can be mixed with oxygen and combusted more efficiently, most proposals use air [114,119,121-124].
Unfortunately the flame temperature is sufficiently high to dissociate atmospheric nitrogen and form undesirable NOx emissions. The high flame speeds mean that ignition timing is at TDC, except when running lean, when the ignition timing is advanced 10 degrees. The high flame speed, coupled with a very small quenching distance mean that the flame can sneak past inlet narrow inlet valve openings and cause backflash. This can be mitigated by the induction of fine mist of water, which also has the benefit of increasing thermal efficiency ( although the water lowers the combustion temperature, the phase change creases voluminous gases that increase pressure ) and reducing NOx [124]. An alternative technique is to use direct cylinder induction, which injects hydrogen once the cylinder has filled with an air charge, and because the volume required is so large, modern engines have two inlet valves, one for hydrogen and one for air [124]. The advantage of a wide range of mixture strengths and high thermal efficiencies are matched by the disadvantages of pre-ignition and knock unless weak mixtures, clean engines, and cool operation are used.
Interested readers are referred to the group sci.energy.hydrogen and the ” Hydrogen Energy” monograph in the Kirk Othmer Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology [124], for recent information about this fuel.
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